Have the Popes, historically, been good examples for Catholics and Protestants to follow?

By | September 14, 2019


>>Ankerberg: Okay, letís get a response.>>Martin: Thereís a severe fallacy in the
reasoning. In order to estab¨lish what you just said,
you must assume that there is a papacy with the power to do that.>>Pacwa: Yes!>>Martin: Well, I deny the assumption.>>Pacwa: Yes.>>Martin: So…>>Pacwa: Itís a fallacy only if I accept
your assumption.>>Martin: Right! Right! Just as itís a fallacy if I accept yours.>>Pacwa: Thatís right. Thatís right.>>Martin: So the point…>>Pacwa: Weíre stuck!>>Martin: Yes, weíre stuck! Weíre stuck in one important area, but I
think we can get out of it pretty quickly.>>Pacwa: Yes…>>Martin: This is it. In Vatican I, which was the cornerstone of
all the power of the contemporary papacy…we know that, because it was then at Vatican
I, which John just read, that the statement was clearly defined for the first time in
history, that this was the position, okay? Now, when that was done at Vatican I on July
13, 1870, an argu¨ment was raised on the floor, voted on by 18 bishops supporting it,
and this is what was stated, historically, if I may quote it: ìWell, venerable brethren,
history raises its voice to assure us that Popes have erred. You may protest against it or deny it as you
please, Iíll prove it. Pope Victor in 192 first approved of Montanism
and then condemned it. Marcellinus was an idolator; he entered the
Temple of Vesta and offered incense to the goddess. Youíll say that it was an act of weakness,
but I answer, a Vicar of Jesus Christ dies rather than become an apostate. Hadrian II declared civil marriages to be
valid, Pius VII condemned them. Sixtus V published an edition of the Bible
and by a Bull recommended it to be read. Pius VII condemned the reading of it. Clement XIV abolished the order of the Jesuitsîóthatís
you!>>Pacwa: He died.>>Martin: Universal Church, bye-bye…okay? Youíre out!óìpermitted by Paul III and
Pius VIIî put you boys back in business!>>Pacwa: Right!>>Martin: ìPope Vigilius purchased the papacy
from Bilesarius, Lieu¨tenant to the Emperor Justinian. But you will tell me these are fables, not
history, fables! Go, Monsignori, to the Vatican library and
read Platina, the historian of the papacy and the annals of Baronius. These are facts which for the honor of the
Holy See we would wish to ignore. Cardinal Baronius speaking of the papal court
said, ëWhat did the Roman Church appear in those days? How infamous! Only all-powerful courtesans governing in
Rome! It was they who gave, exchanged and took bishoprics;
and horrible to relate, got their lovers, the false Popes, put on the thrones of St.
Peter!íî

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