Bishop Barron on Leaving The Church

By | September 10, 2019


[Music] we’re an article just last week in the most recent commonweal magazine by kathleen caveny who teaches at notre dame university and to me it was a latest in a disturbing trend that i’ve seen in the catholic commentariat namely to treat the church in a kind of Cavalier manner as though it’s one voluntary organization among many now here’s what I mean cabanne argues that many Catholics are leaving the church and that’s true and the numbers are rather disturbing but she says that many are doing it in in good conscience are doing it for good reason they’re angry to church for various reasons and they have left and the bishop she said should be concerned about this not because it’s putting these people in spiritual danger but rather because the bishops should now reconsider a number of church teachings about gay marriage or about artificial contraception or whatever that would then you know bring these people back now I’m not gonna go into issues of gay marriage and contraception which had been treated from every perspective practically ad nauseam but I want to talk about what I think is a disturbing sort of hinged to cavities argument namely that the church is relatively industry relatively dispensable she would say that people can leave a church really for good reason and they’re doing it much more easily than their parents or grandparents because they’ve accepted the teaching that God’s grace is available everywhere and not simply within the Catholic Church so if God’s grace is available in other Christian churches it’s available in other spiritual traditions it’s available in nature then you know why not find it where you can you’re not obligated to stay within the confines of the Catholic Church it reminds me there a little bit of Joseph Campbell the comparative mythologist who said all the great religions and philosophies tell basically the same story so you get to the same place following whatever path though Campbell said maybe you should stay with your own so where you know that’s probably a better way to do it but really any of them would work or reminds me of Martin Luther who conceived the church is kind of a voluntary organization what really matters is you’re justified by grace through faith your relationship with Jesus and then if you find the right church that you know helps you and so on that’s fine but it’s more or less a matter of indifference which church you you belong to now he just bugging me cavities premise is legitimate and it’s shared by almost all the great theologians namely that God’s grace is not restricted to the Catholic Church so from you know Origen and Uranus to Thomas Aquinas up to John Henry Newman theologians have a ferment of course God isn’t constrained by the rituals of the Catholic Church though God can only operate in that way Vatican 2 caught this when it says there are rays of truth rays of light in all the great religions and philosophies of the world okay but here’s the thing neither time is the quaintest nor John Henry Newman nor the fathers of Vatican 2 would ever draw the conclusion that therefore it’s a matter of a difference whether you belong in the church they would never draw from that premise the conclusion that it’s probably valid you know to leave and and it doesn’t affect your spiritual life in any way no what they would say is this the Catholic Church represents the fullness of what Christ wanted to reveal to his people it has all the gifts that Christ wants his people to have therefore even though yes you can have access to God’s grace outside the Catholic Church it is indispensably important that you remain a member of the Catholic Church neither times the coins nor John Henry Newman nor the fathers of Vatican 2 would ever say missionary work evangelization work is a matter of indifference no it’s of tremendous importance that people remain connected the church in its liturgy the church in its apostolic teaching the church in the Eucharist the church in its sacraments the church in its Saints remains the definitive place where God’s grace is on offer therefore it’s never a matter of a peripheral concern someone’s left the church well they can find God’s grace elsewhere none of our great figures and serving that Vatican 2 would hold a such a view you know I’ll talk about a couple of things I know that are really bothering people they say well you know the clergy sex abuse scandal the way the church and it’s high levels way the Vatican officials have responded to that even this recent statement you know that seemed to to render equivalent the sexual abuse of children and ordaining women of the priesthood have there been awfully bad responses to the sex abuse scandal yes were there some priests who did terrible things in the sex abuse scandal yes was the recent Vatican statement impossibly bad public relations yes are any of these good reasons for leaving the Catholic Church no that’s the point I want to make can we recognize problems insufficiencies fallings away from the ideal yes yes yes we can see all that in a Catholic Church but it’s never a good reason to leave the church we can’t treat it as one voluntary organization among many and that works for you it doesn’t work for me yeah it worked for me for a time now it doesn’t no no the church is where we find the fullness of the life Christ wanted to give to us I’ll close with this little love story it’s an anecdote from the Vatican to period Huns kun famous theologian probably would agree with Kathy caveny by the way and a lot of these things how does Cohen was walking to a session of Attica to with Almeida luboc one of the great theologians of the 20th century a man by the way who had suffered the hands of the church des lieux Bach had been silence for 10 years by the church he had plenty of reason to be angry they’re walking to Vatican 2 and Hans küng was sharing with delue Bach a lot of his frustrations with the church and why he felt they had to change dramatically and so on to Lubeck listened but then they got to the steps of st. Peter’s he turned to Hans cooling and said may I take almond milk l’m but but she’s still our mother you know and that little stories always stayed in my mind de luboc new troubles in the church he knew difficulties he knew that there were there were imperfections within it me and they call mem no Tamara but she’s still our mother we can’t treat her as take it or leave it you know yeah it worked me for a time now it doesn’t no no the church is the place where we find the fullness of life and that always has to be emphasized [Music]

32 thoughts on “Bishop Barron on Leaving The Church

  1. Elizabeth Kirkeide Post author

    The fact that the Church continues through history when it shows no evidence of caring for individual members, proves I think that it is the true church. The non-denominational super -churches go out of their way to welcome and include visitors. We not only don't welcome them, we say, "Make sure you don't take communion." The church exists because of the Eucharist. I go to mass to get the Eucharist. It is not a social club.

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  2. Jennifer Wilson Post author

    Your Excellency, if Catholics have left the Church it is because they were taught to believe in false charity and to blindly accept anti-Catholic rhetoric, such as your easily disproveable (if one knows how to read a bible) statement, "But are any human beings in hell? We don’t know. We don’t know. The Church has never declared on that subject."

    The problem with this false hope is that it contradicts our Lord, Jesus Christ, who clearly labelled Judas as damned: "None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled." (John 17:11-12)

    Indeed the Church has always understood that "each will be rewarded immediately after death in accordance with his works and faith" (see 1021-1023 CCC). Thus Judas damned his soul because, though he felt remorse, he lacked a contrite heart, which is something the Thief actually possessed.

    Remorse is not enough. In order to be saved from the fires of hell, one must have a true deire to ammemd one's life. And ignorance is no longer an excuse, when the truth is so easily found with a few taps on a smart phone.

    If you fail to preach what Jesus has revealed, that most people will be damned (see 1 Corinthians 6: 9-10) and that grave sins, such as contraception, masturbation, sodomy, obstinancy, or presumption will ensure a one way ticket to hell, then you will sadly end up in the same, dark place, where those foolish people are headed. But a bishop's punishment will be immeasurably worse than a layman's.

    So for God's sake if not for your own, please, Your Excellency, preach what was supppse to have been taught to you in seminary and leave your personal opinions to yourself.

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  3. Sean Rath Post author

    Salvation is only found in Jesus .There is no other name under heaven given to man by which we will be saved.Salvation is inJesus only Acts 4:12. Jesus is the way to the Father John 14:6 What church saves?No church saves either Catholic nor Protestant nor Christian Church saves.The thief on the cross called out to Jesus and was saved .luke 23:34-44 You need to do business with the only one that can save you.jesus.If you confess Jesus as Lord or are you confessing sins.If you are confessing your sins then you don’t believe that Jesus has taken your sins.Just confess Jesus

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  4. Rosemary Mijal Post author

    In Jesus we find the fullness of life, that is, not the church. It is best not to lean to heavily on the church lest it falls off its pedestal and takes its congregation with it. Rather, we should help hold up all Christians in the face of this evil, because it affects all people who have put their trust in those who are supposed to be engaged in God's work.
    We should not minimize the failure of church, in Rome and around the globe, to investigate and reconcile itself. It's time for tough love and forgiveness.

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  5. Fra Bar Post author

    We know that the Catholic Church teach the ways of Satan. Your church is nothing but evil and wicked people. I am not talking about what you did to many children and women. I am taking about how you turned the true and loving word of God unto a lie. You are nothing more but children of Satan. I would never call myself an Irish Catholic and my family can hate me all they want because you and them will one day look up and see me with Jesus while you are with satan

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  6. cady2004 Post author

    I left the Catholic Church after years of attendance, singing in the choir, etc. I loved the Church and miss it every day. It has affected my spirituality, absolutely. But a) I am a woman, and after an ordination mass realized that my contributions will never matter to the Church, and b) the Church has degraded itself by covering up for pedophiles and cares more about the clergy than the suffering of their victims. There has been insufficient effort to change either of these things and until there is, I will be a Catholic in exile.

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  7. YoYo mio Post author

    I feel abandoned by my priest. Refused to marry my wife and I and am now having trouble getting my son baptized. Feeling super lost.

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  8. Kate Post author

    HERETIC! Absolute liar! THERE IS NO SALVATION OUTSIDE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH…what ARE you teaching?

    Ya know what this is, people? This is the Catholic doctrine according to "Fr." James Martin and "Bishop" Barron, two of THE worst impostors (wolves in sheep's clothing) spreading heresy publicly and damning those who innocently follow them…

    Beware…go check out Church Militant what Michael Voris has to say about this creature wrongfully holding divine office…boot them out!

    Reply
  9. Mark Nowak Post author

    The Church leadership has failed to walk its own talk. It has lost the moral authority to say anything about right and wrong. Removal of all the abusers, enablers and masters of cover-ups would not change its structure, so future children would still be in danger. What parent would willingly place their children in an environment that refuses to change … anything? Hard to believe THIS is the fullness of the means of salvation Jesus intended. Go place your own children at risk. Oh, wait …

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  10. Mark Nowak Post author

    The teachings of the Church don't matter when children are raped within its walls.

    Reply
  11. steve coley Post author

    Variety, color and texture makes life interesting and beautiful. I listen to everyone that has something beautiful (uplifting) to say. Jesus, Geronimo ,Muhammad, Sitting Bull, Abraham Lincoln, Confucius, Will Rogers, Been Franklin, Henry David Thoreau, Ralph Waldo Emerson…the list is endless.

    As I read more, the most powerful words float to the surface to occupy my consciousness.

    There seems to be a desperation coming from the Catholic Church to be "superior" to all other belief systems. Which has contributed to the white supremacist movement.

    Saying that Catholicism is superior to all other religions is arrogant. That's like saying my state is better than yours.

    Unlike the evangelical counting corpses that stole America, Native Americans love this paradise planet lifeboat called earth and the miraculous works of fine art called "life" that inhabit it.

    It is completely natural for Native Americans to treat others like we want to be treated.

    They don't need to read a book or be told to do it. Only the alien counting corpses have to be taught this.

    To Native Americans, evangelical counting corpses arrived on the ships of Columbus waving thier Bible's around.

    And hiding behind the robe of truth (love) they judged, depreciated and hated Native Americans to be "savages" to fabricate "entitlement" to murder every non white being in existence. Beaver, otter, buffalo and Native American children playing in the river…to make more freaking money.

    Reply
  12. Alex Chavez Post author

    Why not think out of the box? We all know that justice is in Gods hand, at the end He will make you all justice. But for the moment I also think that the way we judge we will be judged. And maybe, just maybe there is a higher will that we aren’t able to see now. I’d like to think that people who leave the Eucharist , were never actually good Catholics and that maybe God is cleansing the church for the final days.

    Reply
  13. Thomas O'Donnell Post author

    As a gay man, I left because the Church's distorted teachings on sexuality had set me up as a permanent and hated minority, making my spiritual progress impossible.
    The bible is a mass is contradictory statements and for the clergy and bishops, who may well be more than 50% closeted homosexual, to attack those of us freely accepting our God given gift of homosexuality, is hypocritical. It belies the Sermon on the Mount and besides, the real experts, psychiatrists, will tell you homosexuality is not a disorder at all.
    To have remained inside the Church as a self loathing celibate would be a he'll on earth. My last years within the church left me deeply traumatized and now, 50 years later, am still in recovery.
    Stop using religion as a bludgeon.
    Stop the persecution. We have no agenda, save a path towards salvation, free of angry cries of "sinner", "sodomite", "child molester", "faggot", "queer" and any number of even worse exclamations.
    Live the Sermon on the Mount. Put down the stones!

    Reply
  14. Michael Sauro Post author

    I do love being Catholic however a friend of mine made a mistake which I won't get into but she was told by the priests that she should leave the church meaning just that local church in other words in other words she's not welcome here anymore. So in solidarity myself and others have transferred another Catholic Church here in town but I'm thinking if a priest is going to do that I might just go two or three weeks at this new church and then just resign from the Catholic Church altogether. Where is the forgiveness. As far as I'm concerned this priest is not a true Christian.

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  15. Sobri Omar Post author

    Christians…please continue worshipping a naked dead men on a cross as god for your salvation…and keep on lying to your kids about santaclown…

    Reply
  16. Mateusz Milewski Post author

    People are leaving the church because priests are rapping children. Funny how you dont mention that.

    Reply
  17. Julie Rodgers Post author

    Integrity. How do we allow for healing in so many who feel betrayed. Who have experienced betrayal.

    Reply
  18. Jack Rosenberger Post author

    When you get fucked by a priest as a kid and think that maybe your PTSD symptoms make church impossible get back to me.

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  19. Nate Graham Post author

    True, it is easier to leave, not having the threat of death goes a long way.

    Reply
  20. Ron Bennett Post author

    Ignoring the elephant in the room again I see. It's really quite simple. People are leaving the church because of all
    the thousands of sicko sexual priests !!
    It's as simple as that. Any other reason given is nothing more than smoke and mirrors. Priests RAPING children by the thousands, and all those in charge who covered it up is not a good enough reason to leave ?!?!? Is this guy absolutely mad, crazy, batshit NUTS ?!?!?! If that's not a good enough reason I don't know what is !!!! I mean my God, how INSANE can you possibly be ?!?!?!!

    Reply
  21. curious george Post author

    I am angry the pope's latest announcement is saying clerical sexual abuse victims or clergy aware of sexual abuse should report it to the metropolitan bishop. That would have been mc carrick a few years ago and we all know now how effective that would have been…these perverted acts are felonies and should be reported to civil authorities immediately . . ..also haven't heard pope say to eliminate statue of limitations. ..
    Has the cemetery fund in Wisconsin set up by Dolan been dissolved yet?…or is the diocese still hiding money from abuse victims?
    These are just a few reasons the church has lost integrity and credibility ….and people chose to leave…remember, our parents and grandparent's generation weren't abandoning the church because they were unaware of the clerical sexual abuse because of effective and deliberate coverups…today's laity has heard and seen the horrendous rot, thus many have left…..

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  22. con ty Post author

    Most of the comments are from helpless individual who don't have enough faith in Jesus Christ . Just Because of small number of bad cases doesn't make whole Catholic Church bad . May Jesus give us more strength .

    Reply
  23. L C Ringo Post author

    Save it Barron! The man-centered, human-concocted, vile,putrid,profane religious system/institution you refer to as "The Church " has FINALLY shown its true colors; that of a corrupt, reeking,vicious den of baby-raping snakes and wolves. WHOEVER founded this heinous. child-destroying, foul pseudo-religious cabal, it certainly WASN'T JESUS THE CHRIST!!!! 😎😎😎

    Reply
  24. Vida Mitchell Post author

    You call preforming mass and priest hearing confessions by priest that had violated children.. That is not an imperfection that is a crime. Please

    Reply
  25. Asaph Vapor Post author

    Why Catholics leave RCC:
    1. 95% of RCC doctrines are Not from the BIBLE.
    2. Popes orgy with 50 naked harlots, castrated his own deacon and murdered his predecessor.
    3. RCC is full of paedo priests molesting young boys.
    4. RCC lies about its history.
    5. Popes use forgeries to get on their "throne" .
    6. Rome was called the mother of forgeries.

    Reply
  26. nick sibly Post author

    Really tough topic well handled Bishop Barron. Of course people are angry but the church is not defined by corrupt clergy. It is defined by Jesus Christ who gave us this beautiful institution. BTW Jesus also chose Judas Iscariot.

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  27. Gary ricky Post author

    GREATEST DAY of my life when I left the catholic church ! What did the BIBLE say not what man says . GOD laughing when the catholic church says who is in heaven .

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  28. Ardent Fan Post author

    There is good reason in leaving a heretical church, and if you are in one, you should do it as soon as you can. You don't need a heretical bishop like Robert Barron here to tell you you shouldn't do it.

    Reply
  29. Cesar jr Guanzon Post author

    I leave the church Becoz of honest motives,,, believing I my self alone will be facing God in his judgement thrown, God's grace is sufficient for his children,, AND THE CLOUDS OF WITNESSES AND ANGELS WILL BE MY ATTORNEYS,,, FOR FREE,,, IF YOU ONLY BELIEVE IN HIM AND HAVING A CHILD LIKE FAITH IN HIM

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  30. Mark Henry Post author

    "Are these good reasons for leaving the church? No!"… I like the way he answers his own question, just like a salesman. Folks, leave the church. Leave it in droves. It's MySpace. It's Bitstrips. It's Trump. GET OUT.

    Reply
  31. Bethoc Fontenot Post author

    Listen to the testimony of the cloistered nun Sister Charolette. It will move you to tears!

    Reply

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